The Sky 97.3>Audio & Video on Demand>>Michael Gellert discusses Jung & the evolution of God

Michael Gellert discusses Jung & the evolution of God

Apr 11, 2018|

Jason Hawes & JV Johnson talk with Jungian Psychoanalyst Michael Gellert about his book The Diving Mind which examines the evolution of the Abrahamic God & religions. 4/11/2018 - Beyond Reality Radio with Jason Hawes & JV Johnson

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. Error. Are welcoming audience beyond my L radio Jason Ellison GP Jocelyn Jason is often. Actually I'll be here by myself not completely alone and touch you. And I got a great gas coming up in just a little bit Michael Geller will join us he's a young Ian Psycho analyst only talking about his new book called the divine mind exploring the psychological history. Of God's inner journey which tells the epic story of the Abraham and God's evolution and how it affects us as people it's going to be an interesting discussion tonight. Tomorrow night Todd honorable join us he's the co-founder of Detroit paranormal expeditions were going to have him on in the first segment of the show. To be talking about their team's side teaming up with the Atwater brewery company to make a paranormal seemed to beer this is right up my Alley this is going to be good. And then in the second part of the show doctor Lawrie Natal would jewel will be with a she's a bestselling author and will be talking about. How your sixth sense works in the series and it's another best of program I'll be on the road Jason I'll still be on the road. Probable return Monday night with Douglas Stearns who's been on the show before. We talking about the Pyramids of Giza and harmonic two innings and so many things that affect us that we don't realize. Going on now as we eat sleep liberalize whatever happens to be the phone numbers 8446877669. He should just that town. Join our conversation. A later in the program Borneo when we open up the phone lines and we may or may not have time tonight to give back to our psyche experiment. If we do it'll be later half of the program. Couple other things to mention the beyond reality radio coffee mugs the official beyond reality radio coffee mugs are HDL available for. Purchase if you go to the beyond reality radio website it's just beyond reality radio dot com you'll see the coffee mug pictured there click army can grab it. Domestic shipping is included if you're one order for motorists overseas just need to contact us. And one other thing that I wanted to mention that's kind of important and it's coming up quickly it's B scare con convention in Framingham Massachusetts it's a great time. That'll feature a whole bunch of paranormal and horror and pop culture celebrities plus plus parties. Movie premieres and screenings. Panel discussions Q question and answer session to hold onto great stuff lottery vendors. It's all happening at June 16 and seventeenth in Framingham Massachusetts if you want more information about that. Just go do what B scare conduct conference formation about these scare con event. So great to see of liberty in Chad great to see everybody in the YouTube stream it's another way that we're trying to get the show out to people. And it sees me work really well. And take a break him we come back to bring our guest in Michael Geller will join us it's beyond reality radio. I'm TV don't go by. Beyond reality radio friends this is TV and I'm telling you need to go check outs Garrett con dot com it's the website for the event coming up in June in New England in fact it's in Framingham Massachusetts. And sit fan convention that features paranormal. Pour scifi celebrity guests plus panel discussions film premieres and screenings parties and a whole lot more a lot of fan interaction collectibles great defenders a lot of great stuff it's being held June 6 and seventeenth in Framingham Massachusetts all the details are being put up once Garrick conned. Dot com Japan. Through your mind. Jim Johnson thanks for joining me Jason is off tonight won't be joining us and actually we'll do this tomorrow night either and then thirst and we've got a best of program tomorrow night. I'm as I mentioned earlier Doug Todd Bonner one who is to co-founder of Detroit paranormal expeditions will join us to talk about. The fact that this team is teaming up with the a brewery to make a paranormal seemed beer and I can all I can say is about time it's called hello from the other side I can't wait LP sends me samples say I mean it's not fair to have this conversation tomorrow night. Without a sample. Release get over the weekend and we have seen about that. And then doctor Lawrie NATO will join us for the rest of the program she's a best selling author will be talking about how your sixth sense works tonight however. We're talking with the Michael Geller he's a young Guillen Psycho analyst and he's got a new book out it's called the divine mind exploring the psychological history of God's in her journey. And we bring Michael into the program and I right now Michael thanks for joining discreet to have you on the show tonight. I. So let's talk a little bit about you first how did you get started and all of a similar to give us a bit of an idea what your past ones. Well. There were two it and I'm in particular one was pretty. Natural. Religious school in Tibet. Most of us have what different denominations and religions were and Saturday. You're a formidable formidable impact on my. Childhood and my. Understanding of god and as the situation in which is the tradition and I was born and raised in. And then there came a time. When I was about ninety years old. I went to India. It was a different than a decade at a different in her actually my appetite Overland. You can do that in those days it's. And nineteen and that was and you're gonna have indeed and I didn't golfer any religion. Or personal reasons in particular. That was just interest and experience agriculture. And while I was there I had a near death experience and and that opened my eyes to a greater reality. Talk it's within us but also around doesn't beyond desperate. And when I left I was going to come back and in Canada where I'm from and I finish my studies. At the time they weren't free law. But I after that experience and India I was fascinated. By what I didn't have been there and athletic scene about it. Dimension that we can have access to. And I was just into student studying comparative religions have. So I steady compared to religion in college and from there I went on to graduate school and religious studies and much later eventually went to. Japan where idea trained with the zen master for two years. And eventually I came back can became. Psychotherapist there was college teacher First Amendment became a political matter has. And dust finally became the European analyst which is what I've been doing a lot of 25 years. It's probably worth getting into a little bit of who Corleone was and why that's important to what you're talking about. Sure. Well Karl you don't go where is one of I mean for each student's hand he was a pioneer. In the exploration in the unconscious mind. We knew we even at the turn if he twentieth century of the nineteenth century becoming the twentieth century. The fact. These waking mind. Represented perhaps 10% of the human potential. That exists and all of us in the rest of mine. And that we only use that 10% and another 90%. If you can imagine it's like a boat. On an ocean. Small debacle and that is our eagle. Where are eco consciousness. And the rest of this vast ocean underneath that is the unconscionable. All the pioneers so the release of psychiatry and clinical analysis of the talk this way. You broke away from Floyd because he felt that Detroit's approach where is. Narrow. Insofar. As it the fine to be human impulse the main impulse towards human development that's. As the actual instinct or. Everybody knows about his at a it's complex. Theory and no four. And that you don't felt that it's not sexuality. Dries human behavior only. And there's another principle that is even greater. And that takes over for most of us in the second half of life tough for it was really examining our childhood. Experiences say in how we take the first half of fertilizer. Young was more interest in the second half and rather than sexuality. He thought that the drives or the inspiration and he quest for wholeness. For. Religious meaning that. Is the most important factor that chased a human development. So naturally I was I drawn toward you on guard has. The dream. One night that I try to understand by reading forward and got some insight on it that's when I. Read you own I realized oh this man knows something about the religious nature of the unconscious mind. And that is. Which you guys is largely dome floor. So when you say. Pursuit for religious wholeness of the leader in life are we talking about religion itself or we talked you know more of a our purpose into a defined if you will purpose for each of us individually. It's more the latter what you saw that. You'll would not at all adverse. Two. Traditional religion and in fact he. Through an awful lot from on technology and symbols and religious stories. In all the world religions he was interested in the western religion and all the eastern religions as well. But he was most of concerned with how do you appease. The different religions come out individually. In our own personal experiences and how we could. Build on that's how we could interpret their implications for our personal lives. So he. He was interested in. Organize just traditional religion but really it. Multiply its implications for our own a personal journey to. When you've traveled. The world particularly. When you're nineteen years old and went to India. How did that change your overall perspective on everything you're burned up until that point. Hat a good question. Well they realize that. I had been living like most of us. In the West Coast in. Much smaller box or room. Which I thought at the time or it and without even thinking was the total picture. Everything we see and everything we know. And with India did which is sort of dropped the floor out of under my feet and I realized there's a much wider bigger room that conventional reality. As important as it is for us to master. It challenges and to live they responsible. Conventional. License ID where we year you know our citizens and make them know are responsible and make good contributions others. But when he beyond this there's a whole world and in a world. That we send us but as I mentioned before also beyond. And what that experience in India did at your experiences do and altered states of consciousness and the overall I immediately experiences people have from medication. From our. From music. Even from sports do you read a lot about that aptly titled. Getting into the zone and they have a kind of religious experience. While they're on the basketball court or out on the golf course. Enabled them to exit now. And there ain't our purpose of the religious experiences not to score basketball. You know knit group and and two you know to make a lot of money it's really about. Developing the potential in ourselves and our achievement and then stepped. Are kind of reflection of after an expression of that. So. That photo that's about that experience in those kinds of experience with that which many people who attacked and don't even sometimes you know it. I would kind of re orient tested it gives public compass too much larger horizons. We've only got about him a minute here before have to jump in a breaks I just wanna ask you about the experience of hitch hike and where did you start from under way to India that you hitchhiked. Started in Amsterdam. Flew to Amsterdam from. Canada. And I went down to through Germany. Two into the rest of the countries on the way to Turkey. And in Istanbul a friend and mine decided that we're going to hit tight. Through Asia minor. And see the country that way he had already it's like once before Overland. And he was going now against India and he wanted to go a little further to the Far East he was actually wanting to go to Malaysia. And we hittite through Turkey. You Iran. Afghanistan. Pakistan and then down into India. Eventually he went on to Malaysia. He played in India I went and they Paul we're still good friends today. In those days you could travel. In those countries freely it was and I think that indeed it was a the was open. Turkey and Iran. And there was you know no Afghani. War and the moment. The Soviets had gone in there yet. There were dangers of course because these terror you know arrest. Country. It is rough countryside and we were after all. The beginning of the winter when we did this. But it was part of their culture would venture you know it was pretty I was younger. Personally I hit a hat and that it was my. Mind you coming of age adventure. Oh certainly certainly one of martyrdom and he had an answer as this sounds like it was a life change in one as well. We're talking with Michael Geller is easy union Psycho analyst he's got a new book out it's called the divine mind exploring the psychological history of God's. In her journeys got several other books to his credit as well. You can see them all if you go to Michael Gillers dot com and encourage you to do that. We're gonna take a break and when we come back will continue our discussion we'll get into the book and the more detail. The phone numbers 8446877669. We'll take your phone calls later in the program we also encourage you to stop by the web site beyond reality radio dot com. And check out the scary con website that's an event coming up in June that if you have any interest in. Paranormal paranormal or or or pop culture celebrities movies. And vendors and it's all going to be it's Garret Condon that website is scary con dot com. I'm JD this is beyond reality radio don't go away. I didn't Johnson Jason Hawes is off tonight he'll be off the rest of the week actually he's out doing some stuff some important stuff to the tutorial about when he gets back. Tomorrow night on the program we've got Todd Bonner joining us in the first part of the show to talk about his paranormal teams. Work with the brewery called the Atwater Atwater brewery. And Adam making a paranormal seemed beard called whole low from the other side again I think we all need samples right if you can be on the show to talk about everybody should get samples. And then later in the program tomorrow night doctor Lawrie Natal will join us to talk about. Your sixth sense she's written about it she's got information about it how does the sixth sense work for people how do you make it work. And a B in the later half of tomorrow night's show Thursdays at best of Friday's always a best of and then Monday Douglas Stearns will come back. Under the program to talk about the mysteries of the great pyramid of Giza. Also standardize. And semantics tuning and how it all inspired his scifi series called harmonic forced. Remember that conversation was fascinating we'll get into more depth. With the Douglas Stearns on Monday night. Our telephone numbers 8446877669. Jot that down to be part of our discussion a little bit later. Tonight we're talking with Michael Geller. And we're talking about his book called the divine mind exploring the psychological history of God's inner. Journey to his website is Michael Geller dot com don't wanna wanna check that out to get information about that book. And all of the other work that Michael is done and again Michael thanks for being with us. How to ask you about. This particular book now usage you ariz stuck in the Jewish tradition. And and you went and in explored the world basically and started to recognize. Similarities and done kind of convergence is among these different religions and you decided to look at the Abraham act religion specifically. For this book the divine mind tell us. What's that means. It would move leasing the Abraham. Religions were talking about Judaism christianity and Islam but tell us how those three relates. Well all of Leah Abraham religions. Those three which are the major ones and then there's this you minor ones which. Yeah. You know we heard about that. A lot of people aren't aware of that good samaritans we've. We've read about in the new testament and the Baha I faith these are also Abraham traditions. Basically the Abraham the religions. All happening so of course. They draw bigger. Teachings. From the experience that Abraham had with regard to its Hebrew Bible. Don't refer to company's deal testament. It is out of that in this battle encountered when I first patriarch. Abraham. That all the Abraham religions people insults to the. And again we're talking about this three of the world's major religions and and some others and do well and can you Kenny guide us through. What happened after that divergence part of the three. Differ so much. Well they they all agree on the Hebrew Bible. Muslims Christians and Jews all agree that the Hebrew Bible is the foundation of the error. Oh rev revelations. They diverged. Firstly that christianity. We. Everybody knows who lies. Founded by the G. In particular. But really altered. So to speak by Saint Paul. Paul is the one who took jesus'. Insight and personal experience and the native religion out of that. He's actually never refer to christianity that was not a word in his vocabulary. Christianity formed in the first century. He. And it turned Christ's. And it went off on its own did you develop its own lineage and broke away from Judas and you know we would like to contact. Islam came at it again quite a bit later in the article century. And then another part of the Far East and Arabia. And astounded by Mohamad who also had a revelation of god. So at three different revelations. Have different ideologies. Different experience is different ways of explaining to divine human drama where Mexican. Judith and went on. After the right of christianity or around the same time christianity not in fact a little earlier. And developed an additional sacred text which has a very huge. Collection of volume is known as a homeless. Christianity developed the new testament. And that was. Finally. Sealed up it was protected unsealed and made into a book in the fourth century. And it. Mohammed wrote down. His revelation which came from. How Latin. However the Muslim names for it's far better in christianity or you have faith in the Hebrew Bible god. God. The god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. And that was conveyed to him through the Angel Gabriel to Mohammed had the revelation. We field the came by way of which Gabriel there show him. All of these traditions. Once they diverted. Developed so to speak different personalities. But they also hear the same god and what the divine mind try to talk show. It is how this gaudy awful stuff how the experience to him. Is this same with all the tradition and in the beginning with the Hebrew Bible and then much later in the final. Ending. Centuries that we are now in ending after the Middle Ages. So. You get three basic status. Of God's development when you look at all of three Abraham religions together. You get the Hebrew Bible is the first case. Then you get the talmud which I imagine this that's second sacred text of cubism the new testament is the Koran. And any body of religious literature known has been autistic literature. Which basically rated Jewish and Christian and early mystics. Some of these were deemed an operating christianity paradox. But they have authentic experiences as well and this added to our understanding of god that blew up. Because through three stages of god has evolved and and in the third stage. We come to the middle of the Jewish mystics also known as the freedom and the couple assists. The Christian mystics likening John of the cross. Saint Francis the SEC. And the Muslim mystics. The owners uncertainties. And here's. At the religions diverged from each other in the second period after the Hebrew Bible. We permit Nixon starting in the Middle Ages the tradition to begin to come closer. Because of their experience of god in an identical. So the Muslim mistakes can be Jewish and Christian mystics they had a vision of god which was. If you were to take care quotations. And remove the names of the authors of those quotations from the three different traditions. You wouldn't know which tradition. What is speaking. So identical or their experience. And with all of these guard transforms. From the biblical patriarch. Who was a war guard. He was a creator guard you with the law give bird he gave a lot of modus. He transforms them in the second phase becomes more humanitarian. More humanistic. More loving more wise and then in the third case with the mystics he becomes a mystical can't. And air go it is discovered not outside about us. As in the first two occasions. But insight about post in fact in this pixels and say I'm in the garden and so where you. We are all god and god is innocent. Around dust between us. It's a completely different experience and what the divine mind so it is the progression and unfolding and that experience. I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves here but so what has that evolution the evolution of god as you just described it. Don duke humanity's evolution. And and I don't mean that in a biological sense I mean in a more of agricultural science yeah. Definitely. In terms of the height of religion and you know when I speak at the height of religion I mean the visionaries. And fifty years in the mystics. The people who are interested in experiencing god. Less interested in the conventions of the church or the synagogue or the mosque. More interested in the inner workings that we all have access to that lead just got a that evolution. Culturally. And psychologically. Has gone visible pain and becoming a less identified as a person. Or an object. You know how Michelangelo. Painted with that god has and old man with a white flowing beard. On this team chapel. That begins take completely disappear. As you get into little inner workings of the mystics. And domestic experience god as their own consciousness. So. Broad visionaries and see years and mystics. Had a completely different culture. An understanding. Of god that transcended the most of the social conventions. Unfortunately. The mystics in the early years in the visionaries were really small percentage of the population. The majority. The people. Through them up to the Middle Ages and even in the Middle Ages right to modern times don't really look into this statement. People go to church on Sundays were important synagogue on. Saturday. Muslims. Celebrate Ramadan. These are very much social forms. The majority. The people in our religions follow this and don't even know about this hidden dimension that the mystics eventually tapped into. So in one way it was a profound change because they are the leading edge of civilization and domestic. Their psychology back in the Middle Ages was that sophisticated is modern psychology today. And it's not in certain ways a more sophisticated. We have yet to catch up ten. As they were minority tradition and they still are. We're gonna go to break and we come back burner talk more about Michael's book called the divine mind exploring the psychological path of guns in her journey. It's beyond reality radio the telephone number and we will open up phone lines next hour is 84468776. Attack dog. Appreciate turner are also very appreciative all the great radio stations. They carry the program around the country that list continues to grow we've got some news stations are actually denounce him pretty cents we're excited about that. Jays will be back with I mean next week tomorrow night we've got Todd Bonner and doctor Lawrie needle joining us in the program Thursday is a best of Friday is always a best of and Monday Douglas Stearns will be here live with us are looking forward to that tonight we're talking with a sub Michael Geller at about his book the divine. Mind their exploring the psychological path of guns in her journey and Michael this is kind of a short segment here. But it can ask if you don't mind are you do you consider yourself or religious person or did you write this. For more of an academic standpoint. Nor am writing but mostly it's. From an experiential standpoint to I think I'm trying to show would lend itself to academic. In two arrests if you're interested. In the history of religion. There's a fair amount of that in the way this is as you have mentioned with the subtitle of the book it is a psychological history. But it's really experience we've bassist and what I'm trying to show in that history. Is that God's journey parallels to our own our own it's you have done before our own evolution. Culturally and mostly in terms of our consciousness. In this journey there's a shift. Where god is no longer experiences outside just as a kind of super person or super. Being a father in heaven. Chipped it to an inner experience. The experience. Of god in and asked her own consciousness. Jesus you know. That is very well and started this. In christianity at the very inspection of christianity when he said the kingdom of god is within you. So it is mostly of book that is trying to convey to people that. But since the mystics have. Back to this. Consciousness of god that is available to all of us. Where are all able to access it. Not only mr. Dixon religious geniuses like the saints. And scholars of religion but. Everyday people can have this because we all cheer the scene consciousness. Draw this into the psyche of every one. And that's what I'm really trying to get across to folks. We have a lot more to talk about Tom on the other side of the top of the hour on what you do talk you do mentioning described the book as being the story told from. Of god from his experiences his thoughts and his feelings. I'm assuming that what you mean is through through. How those thoughts feelings and experiences are explained in the books that you mentioned in in the Hebrew Bible in the new testament in. All of the other reference works he talked about. Yet that that's absolutely correct. You know it it's impossible. To know go to our. From the Nike that he took him. Our psyche is the only way we can know anything at all. And god is filtered through our own persona and just like everything else is it like it is. So nobody of course knows for sure exactly what goes on in the heart and mowing the guard. But if you read the scriptures and the writings of I came in in the period after the Hebrew Bible and then the writings and autobiographical. Writings. The megapixel. All three people and the traditions. UC jacket underneath. The external event it is. That are attributed to god. That he's also undergoing. Certain transformation. He's entitled to evil thing according. To. What the traditions a lot of now of course it's impossible to tell. It does he actually evolving where their projection of him useful thing is that Turkey and a question and it remains were ultimately in the history. And we'll get we'll get into more than on the other side of the top of the hour break here it's beyond reality radeon JB Johnson don't go. It's arms and Jason's. Apparent accident there are costs so will be back with Jason next week we've got a great show tonight though we're talking with Michael gellert. About his book the divine mind exploring psychological history of God's inner journey will get back to that discussion in just a few moments moments tomorrow night. Todd bon you'll join us he's a co-founder of Detroit paranormal expeditions is. Paranormal group is teaming up with the Atwater brewery they are going to make a paranormal themed beer called. Hello from the other side Jason I've talked about making taps spear. Taps beer on tap. Bring that would make on sense but I'm anxious to hear about this one and wanna I want actually try some. And then later in the program. A doctor Lawrie Natal will join us. To talk about ESP your sixth sense how it works Thursday night is a best stuff program Monday were actually next week at least Monday Tuesday when sue we've got a bunch of really great returning guests Douglas Stearns. We'll be back with a us Monday night talk about the great pyramid of Giza. And Caroline clapper who's never intentional psychic medium and a medical intuitive will be. Talking to us about her guests how she got these gifts or recognize them and what she does with them. And then Wednesday night Linda Godfrey who is an author and an investigator will be talking about upright canines like dog man across America these crickets that looked like where walls or other dog man. Type creatures in this series behind those and other scripted creatures that'll be Wednesday night's program. The telephone numbers 8446877669. If you like to call on the part of her discussion a couple of other things to remind you of the beyond reality radio official coffee mugs are available. Just go to the website beyond reality radio dot com there's a picture of the mug there you can click on its very stylish hold it up. For the video chat here so they can see it see this this is the official beyond reality I know mine has tens and that but that's I've got others that I drink this is just the one with the parents to connect. And then you can also check out the scare con website it's just scary kind dot com that's a great event that's coming up in June. In the Boston Marriott Framingham Massachusetts there are a number of celebrities that'll be there. A film screenings and premiere it's panel discussions. Vendors it's a great time training in Massachusetts that's called scare conch check that out as well. Let's go back to our guests line and bring Michael Gellar back in his book is called the divine mind and his website is Michael Geller dot com Michael you've been writing for wild you've got a number of books to your credit. Before we get back into discussing the divine mind tell us a little bit about some of the other books you've got to that people might see if they go to your website. Sure. My first book that's called modern mysticism. And that's an exploration. Everything we've been talking about but not from the historical. Point of view really from a psychological point of view. And it's those apparently human psyche or the unconscious mind in particular. Is that double. Room with mystical and other kinds of religious experiences. Com. That includes a paranormal phenomenon that UFO encounters. With young COLT synchronicity. War usual coincidental it is. Experiences. Contact with the afterlife true to talk but once. And it is very much a book that draws on the experiences are so well known people who win would not ordinarily I think you had a religious experience but they did. And this includes. On the one end of the spectrum actors and rock stars and on the other hand it includes military prosecutors have great statement. Like when venture capital and so forth. My second book is that it is. Shift from that it's called the fate of America. It's actually going to be a re released pretty soon. It's a look at you all my book I have this underlying theme which is the unconscious mind and I'm looking and it's the constant reminders of various. Manifestations. And different contexts that it surfaces and and I think if Americans really look at the collective unconscious. The United States of America. It looks at the national character. That this country starting. We the early days of the pilgrims and right up until modern times. It's very much historical book. And it raises the question of what to Americans need to be thinking about. In order to ensure that. That the country. Continues to fall. And resolved its other current difficulties. Which a whole other conversation of course. But it's a book really about it our culture. The book after the fact. It is more for personal books. It has a lot of money. Patients those stories in two and always. I worked with them on their dreams. It's called the waved a small. One less is truly more. And it argues that. We in America. Are very oriented toward big. Having a bigger house in the bigger car and a better educated and more money. And two. Really the opposite is where happiness is sound. In and living within our means in finding tour in the smallest sense of life. It cultivating. The ability to. People. In quiet ways. It's they. Small book and hit draws on the wisdom of the ancient sport it is modern context. And then there came to spoke which we've been talking about tonight the device on. Lot of so a lot of great stuff there again the website is Michael Geller dot com let's go back to talking about the divine mind and I'm one of can take you back to the beginning here because. You you discuss the evolution of of god or maybe the interpretation the evolution of the interpretation of god. But in the beginning not to use of pollen here you talk about god as being a tormented and divided. God what do you mean by that. Well if you read the Hebrew Bible or the old testament. You'll see that guarded behaved in very human ways. And he feels emotions that he expresses it and they're very human like emotions. It's starts in the book of Genesis where he. Has a huge emotional reaction to Adam indeed happening didn't hit the forbidden fruit of the tree of good and evil volatile. It's progresses. On two no blood where god has second thoughts. The Bible tells us about having created. The earth and humanity. And he tries to wake them all out he doesn't white ball out except for one family Noah and his family. And then right through the Hebrew Bible which has a very big collection of books just. That can take its Spanish history. Starting around 18100 BC. To about 200 BC source 16100 years of Israel like history. And it includes the encounter with the process. Who are screaming at the opposite their voices that god is suffering. Because the people are not worshipping him. In an appropriate way. And that they are following idolatry and worshipping I sort of other religions. And you catastrophe that would god speaks through the profits. He's a very hurt. He's very alarmed at what's happening and he's behaving. Like a lover who's been chilled out. Had these are very few men. Kinds of our you know sentiments and feelings. And his rage. It is beyond human. If you count the amount of genocide it's. That the Israel like a committed at God's orders. God commands. That you come to about seven. This is not the way most of us today. Like to think about broad. Grata here is not only very human he is very humid and particularly dark ways as well as loving. Part ways. He is both a destroyer and a creator. You also talk about. A mystical framework for understanding the problem of evil. The circle a detriment and what you mean but when you talk about evil as being a problem and we all think evil is a problem in the world but is that what you mean. Are you talking about how evil fits into the whole scheme of god. We don't immediately experience evil. Today. The dark side of god. In the Hebrew Bible at Roseland new testament. The dark side of the guard was personified. In the form escaped. But it's very clear it was very clear to be an ancient Israel they can't that's patent. And god we were two sides of the same being beaten. I talk about that in the divine mind and I basically psyched to scripture. Other places in scripture where the reader can go and verify it for themselves. But today you know we live and secular society and we don't really connect to the evil actions. And he historical atrocities like the genocide. In the during the Holocaust and genocide we'd like going on to date even right now in Syria on the news. The act of chemical. Warfare game just the Syrian people by their own government many would say is people. We don't connect that today. Immediately and directly withdraw it. But that we have to have a way to understand this side of ourselves. You know we are created in God's image hit in the book of Genesis tell dust and that means we also had his dark side to. So. I understand evil we really need to have the deeper understanding of human nature with its dark capacities. And we. Our objective. Evil. Just as easily as we are subjects still loved and you know great entity. And good deed does. Broker. So both of those dimensions. Is what I look at in that character on April. Before I went to the top of the hour break Huard. Explaining in talking about. This three phases. Of flow of god. Kind of an evolution if you will. And you had pose the question. As to whether it was god that was evolving or was it's those for Purdue in god that were involved in. It do it did you come to any conclusions in the book regarding that or is that still an open question. It's an open question. As all of these mr. mysteries are. It's very clear that. At least from the western point of view the easterners and have a very different. Orientation and that's. But according to Judaism christianity and Islam. God created the universe. And that already is a change. Because according to the those traditions. Before creation. God was all by himself you know in all the world religions. And in the history of the world religions including the ancient Greeks in the ancient egyptians and so on. There wasn't a monopolistic. To. There were many gods it was a polygraph is the pantheon. And the guards always before creation and pat each other. To relate to and to. You know be supported by. With the Abraham nick religion's god is the only. Force in the university has nobody to mirror in front to reflect them back to themselves to talk where this. And ostensibly god created creation and it is consider that in scripture because he was lonely. And to then make a university and to create human beings. That already changed and it seems that decree creatures to change a broad. Just as god changes. Its creatures. We have an impact on his development. Which never developed because when he was all alone. It before creation there was nothing pertains to he would change lest he was eternal. But it went out to be creation and he himself entered into the participant what he himself begins to change. Now that's what scripture tells us just how would portrays god. Again. It's a mystery as to how much of this is objective. And how much of that is our interpretation our projections. Carl you're and we talked about earlier. Suggested that the projections. Point. Allude. To reality beyond themselves. That has a certain objectivity. It may not be exactly the way to scripture portrays god. We have to wonder what realities lies behind her picture and because the projections themselves have historically had such a power. There. Going on. For thousands of years and they grip our imagination and very dramatic ways. So it's a mystery. And it's really messed up to the individual who leads the scriptures to decide. For themselves is this guard where is this also. Our own site keys that is perceiving guard in this way. We're talking with so Michael Geller Cameron and continue our conversation on the other side of the break when a little bit long gears are gonna have some quick back to back breaks but. Don't go away we have a lot more to talk about it's beyond reality radio it's. The facility. Jason has so far this week it's GB Johnson glad to have everybody along with a list. I don't they were and have time to do our psyche experiment tonight the wolves we will get to that either tomorrow night or what to do next week either way we have a lot of fun with that so continue with that. Soon anyway tomorrow night we've got a couple of guests Todd garner from BD tree paranormal expeditions will talk about. His work teaming up with the Atwater Drury to make a paranormal seemed beer. Paranormal themed beer you heard me right. It's called hello from the other side. I'm not sure where it's going to be available but we'll have a discussion about it tomorrow night and doctor Lawrie Natal will join us in the legal part of the program to could talk about. How your sixth sense works Thursday night is a best of Friday is a best of and then Monday night Douglas Stearns whose are returning guest will come to talk about. The great pyramid of Isa lot of great stuff coming up on the show tonight having a fantastic and fascinating conversation with Michael Gillard. She checked out his website is Michael Geller dot com. And at the book we're talking about is the divine mind. Exploring the psychological path of God's inner journey. Michael. We've been talking about a lot. But he talked about the evolution. Of of god again whether it's a natural evolution got himself for how goddess perceive the one thing I've noticed. When we need more often when we talk about god or religion on this program. We have people talking about it in need much much more nebulous or less defined sense. God is everywhere god is the trees Scott is the earth god is whatever and and a lot of people. Our. Redefining their perception of god and religion to that kind of a definition is that part of this evolution as well is that part of what we're talking about here. I guess. But optimistic. The definition of god broad and so did it opens up. And becomes an all inclusive. You know in the biblical idea. The creation god kind of creates the universe outside of himself and but with the mystics. The process of creation is seen as something or occurring within god himself. It's a huge hit just a and as that is which you're describing. Is going on today. It is actually. A spinoff that was made possible. Because. It already been achieved in western consciousness with this text. So this kind of modern pancreas and is. The broader view. Domestics word exactly pancreas favors something that's called pan and guests. So they still believed in guard as a transcendent being. Beyond created. By creation was. A manifestation of god and a place in which we could become one with god. So you didn't get to the all of creation. The story. The way it happens. It's indeed Hebrew Bible and Christian fallen men. C mystics kind of heel that. So it's vote has elements of god. In tradition and from ancient times but it's also this broader vision that your alluding to. When we. Go to church. And as many of us do and we are taught what. God's words or through the Bible if you're Christian. Is that. Subject to the same kind of change that we are talking about here is in in the perception of what we believe god is it oh we going to see. An evolution there as well. Whether it really depends on the what. You know the parishioner. The at least for the rabbi. It depends on the dogma we're. Official teachings of the particular. Church were the tradition that says they belong to. It bought it it it depends on the congregation. Do they want to go to toward that kind of mystical. Understanding of fraud or is that too frightening for them do they wish to preserve the traditional. Way of understanding that god is being up in the heavens. And we are down here and we pray to god. As if he is something outside of us. You know. That kind of ebbs and flows. In society. We now have for example Pope who is. Very in tune with the mystics he named himself after saint Francis of the CC who was great to. The Italian Catholic mystic. Not all the pope's due to match. You also have an opening up of the church. Back in the sixties I believe which. Pope. Paul. We'll try and you John do the twin brother John John the 23. And that was it any opening up to. The mystical. Flavor of christianity as well but you can see that in subsequent. Papacy is the religion revert back to the formal. Dogmatic understanding that's been in place for. The centuries. So you know that's that's a question that history will. And give us the answer to will. Will the religions. In. That's their practice that society will they evolved. As well as the mistakes that. In the same way that the mistakes it. So is our time search run short your thumb when people pick up your book the divine mind what do you hope they walk away with. After reading. I hope they be walk away within understanding is that. God ultimately is not something. Perhaps distracted out there something that only. The pockets in the Bible. With the mystics. In the Middle Ages and countered but that it is something that all of that kind of counter. We get glimpses. Of the line every night when we have two greens. The characters in our greens behavior in unpredictable ways. Magical things can happen. And that means they're loaded with meaning. There's symbolic. But there are certain very meaningful. And symbols. Are like onions you could just peel them. When layer after another and you keep coming down to the essence of the best in the colonel's son and in the same way the human psyche has its own leaders and we have a conscious mind. And blow that we have many layers of the unconscious and as we kilos. Open. Our ultimate nature. Of who we always were it will eternally be our consciousness. Really becomes more available to us. And they crystallized way. So I hope that via reader goes away with an appreciation of that and that it sparks their curiosity to couple more. And in a practical way perhaps as well as city this they're reading experience. In a few minutes we have left leg I wanted to touch on Warner may be two of your other books and you you give us a nice list of of the works. That you've completed that are listen on your website. One of them the fate of America is very very intriguing to me he tells a little more about that book. Yeah sure. Basically that book. Is looking at. Certain. Characteristic. Of the American experience through the centuries. And the American national character. And that ingredient that element is. The American fascination with heroism. Americans. Idolize heroes. And see themselves. As a heroic people. Starting with the journey of the pilgrims from Europe over the Atlantic and then their founding of the original settlement. In the wild frontier. Going right there in modern times there's been all kinds of heroes. Our heroes were the founding fathers to start world. Then there came different tiers meant that the war and so there popularly known especially cowboys. But that we in modern times developed other crimes heroes from the barons of industry. To be actually we were all the time in our. Love us exports. To the astronauts. Soldiers America has been a country that's has had very diverse. And sometimes. Too prevalent military history. We have the heroic. Image of ourselves and our role and responsibility in the world. And sometimes that gets in trouble. Heroic ideal however. The strongest has been through the centuries since the founding of America. In the last sixty or so years has come into a crisis. We're kind of undergoing today a heroic identity crisis. We no longer know. Exactly what it means to be a hero in modern times. The world is changing and we don't live in the straightforward. Simple good vs evil. He wrote wisdom of the old days where you choose one. And it's obvious who the enemy is today the world you know this we also see is. Globally interdependent and very complicated ways. Of America's mission as it's conceived it. Has not stood up. In the way it did it in simpler times. And the heroic ideal also needs to develop according to the demands of the world. And with the book really does is. It examines. The ways we've gotten derailed from our hero was in the modern times. And how we need to get back to the original roots of particularly as the founders envisioned to the future of purpose of the American in the world. We need to get back to a bit in the modern way not like going back and repeating the past but by applying the wisdom of the past of our founders. People like Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson John Adams. And apply it in a modern context. That suggests doesn't renewed sense of heroism and our purpose in the world. We've been a little bit negligent on their phone line Terry do wanted to at least grab one listener called before we let you go this is Ed calling in from North Carolina he had booked into the program. Yes I didn't are saying and I really enjoy the Michael you know there I want to congratulate you on making things. Getting to the core and making things that I could easily understand. You're manly images of Campbell and we need delineated did make calling in who is the true mansard dreams and so forth to kind of won me over there. I really. Eventually. The clarity that you are able to express yourself in help us understand a lot of these. Different. Spiritual thinking in reality it. So for. Other. Mistakes. Well thank you very much for your good word I appreciate that. So glad it's helpful. Thank you read thank you for the call my comments very much appreciated. So. Michael what's next for you UV you don't stop working so what's next on the docket for. Well I have. That her book that in the works and in. The one that. Is my agent that is. Shopping around the publishers. And I mentioned the fate of America will be. Re released just. In the next months I would say. Antics on the end that brings it up to expect finished a book to book. And the 1990s and it was actually published. On 9/11. What these new addition it will offers an update it brings a book on modern times and to the trump era that we are and so that's something that's pretty much what's on my table. Right now. And also I mean do you do you do more than just write to you also have a practice on and on your website people cannot can reach counties there what else do offer on the web site. Players. Excerpts from the different books there are some lectures. That have been transcribed. Various topics. Mysticism of religion. To do with the American history is well. That are not in the books. And and there's. There's you don't get a different. Things people can read. Yeah they're free to go and explore it and there's also contacted you mentioned contact information so. People have questions I'm happy to receive those and they answered those especially look at. Thus been a fascinating conversation. I really appreciate your time and hopefully we'll have a chance to bring you back under the program as say you do more work that we can talk about. Thank you very much Casey and I appreciate your your very thoughtful. Questions. Has helped me to. Didn't you talk about the book in a way that time hopefully it's relevant. Spokesman fantastic again the book is called the divine mind exploring the psychological path of God's inner journey authored by our guest tonight Michael gellert. You can go to his website Michael Geller dot. Com check out that book pluses other work has a lot of great information there. Are gonna take a break we'll come back to wrap things up it's beyond reality radio I'm JB Johnson thanks so much for me. Yes great show tonight we appreciate my. The killer for being with us so it shows great program tomorrow right a couple of guests Todd Bonner. We'll start off the program and then doctor Lawrie Natal will join us to talk about these six cents ESP if you will. That's leading the program it's beyond reality radio Jason's off tonight you'll be off the rest of the week on GB Johnson join me tomorrow night I'll be here with you can. And I don't know ingredients taste good Jason Hanson GB Johnson introduced by elements into each incidents with the it's only you don't really read news. Yeah you never stopped going to finish in the agency hello Hayden sent peacekeepers will purchase most all actress and host attempts to TV Johnson following. TV chief paranormal if you talked to being just beyond real radio or you have a suggestion for guest contacts with the idea that slick Eddie Edwards at